Quote:PHP Rocks.

No.

Enlighten me with another one that doesn't suck as hard then.

Python.

Now that is a real language.

GOGOGOGO.

I saw this thread, and was like, "Oh, gosh, what is Faltzer going to say about PHP this time?"

Dude, what is so bad with PHP. IT WORKS FINE! I've dabbled in Perl, Python, and Ruby, and I still like PHP. So shut up about it already, k?

(08-10-2008 07:54 AM)PsychicAltaria Wrote:  I saw this thread, and was like, "Oh, gosh, what is Faltzer (Definitely not Silverwing (Definitely not Faltzer)) going to say about PHP this time?"

You're on the right track.

Quote:Dude, what is so bad with PHP. IT WORKS FINE!

According to your logic, you're saying that you will use Internet Explorer over Firefox because IE "WORKS FINE!", am I correct?

There are so many built-in functions that the reference has been changed from a flat list to one-hundred eighty categories of functions.

There are at least 22 functions alone for finding something in a string, depending on if you want to be case insensitive, if you want to replace that something, if you want to search from the end first, etc etc... some of those functions also have flags, which is a bit self-defeating.

To the best of my knowledge, the built-in database access functions don't use or even allow the use of variable binding, which is possibly why I hear about so many common PHP applications with SQL injection exploits. There are, of course, several different ways to get around this, including a flag in a config file that affects every script on the whole server and a function named mysql_real_escape_string. (I eagerly await the announcement of mysql_fake_escape_string.) There are also dbx_escape_string, escapeshellarg, escapeshellcmd, pg_escape_bytea, pg_escape_string, pg_unescape_bytea, addslashes, addcslashes, preg_quote, quotemeta, mysql_escape_string, mysqli_real_escape_string, and sqlite_escape_string. Why? Who knows?

The reflectiveness API looks absolutely nothing like the rest of the language and actually more closely resembles a failed attempt at wedging Java into C.

The developers can't even decide whether or not they want underscores in function names or not. is_object vs isset? base64_encode vs urlencode? str_rot13 vs strpos? Straightforward indeed.

Arrays and hashes, despite being completely different, are merged into the same data structure because I guess it would just be hard to expect new programmers to tell the difference. Teaching by removing difficult details; what a concept.

Does PHP even have references or namespaces or closures yet? I don't think so, really.

I'm not a fan of having the same operators for numeric and string operations either, but almost everyone does that

Bad programs do not a bad language make, but there have to be some criteria for a bad language, and I'm pretty sure these should all be on the list. PHP started out as a quick templating language for non-programmers, and it's still not very good for anything better than that. I could write a symbolic algebra package in Malbolge, but that doesn't make it a good idea.

PHP is a horrible language for a new programmer and a pathetic language for a seasoned programmer. If you want a decent language also aimed for beginners, use Python. If you want a powerful language with vaguely-consistent syntax and lots of easy-to-use libraries, use Perl or Python or Ruby. If you want to put a cute little counter in otherwise-static HTML, use PHP.

Quote:I've dabbled in Perl, Python, and Ruby, and I still like PHP. So shut up about it already, k?

No.

(08-10-2008 08:18 AM)Faltzer Wrote:  According to your logic, you're saying that you will use Internet Explorer over Firefox because IE "WORKS FINE!", am I correct?

What? No. You could use IE, but the sites won't display correctly in it. That's not the way with PHP. You code it once, and you don't have to use special hacks to get it to work right. It just works. Not at ALL like IE. Stop stuffing words in people's mouths.

(08-10-2008 08:18 AM)Faltzer Wrote:  If you want to put a cute little counter in otherwise-static HTML, use PHP.

Uh, no. PHP can do some awesome stuff. I'm using it to write an internet operating system. Would you call that "static"?

Everything I could want to do with Python, Ruby, or Perl, I can do with PHP, so why would I want to learn another language? IRC Bot? Sure, got that done in PHP. Web Operating System? Oh yeah, no problem. Forums? Blogs? CMS's? Sure! You got a need for a web application? PHP can be used.

If you wanna use Python, Perl, or Ruby, that's fine with me. But don't try to come to be with stupid "issues" with PHP that I don't care about it, and expect me to switch. Cause I'm not. PHP, FTW. (SHUT UP, FALTZER!)

(08-10-2008 12:45 PM)PsychicAltaria Wrote:  You code it once, and you don't have to use special hacks to get it to work right. It just works. Not at ALL like IE. Stop stuffing words in people's mouths.

PHP's map() doesn't even allow for inlining afaik (anonymous functions are just too complicated?), and I'm not sure it has a grep() at all. Sorting is ridiculous; I count twelve different sort functions, several of which exist only to work around the array/hash hack (and none of which, of course, have the array_ prefix that the most common array functions have). Searching a string is still thoroughly ridiculous. Database access... who even knows, it's different for every database.

It's almost as if nobody except Zend knows how to write PHP modules, and since all this stuff is built in everyone else is rather discouraged from trying to write anything better.

Quote:Uh, no. PHP can do some awesome stuff. I'm using it to write an internet operating system.

WebOS' are a useless concept. If you already HAVE a good OS that can accomplish whatever you instruct your computer to do, what is your need to have to make one?

Quote:Would you call that "static"?

Stop striding off the topic. I am talking about the design, yet you talk about functionality.

Quote:Everything I could want to do with Python, Ruby, or Perl, I can do with PHP, so why would I want to learn another language?

Yes, it's a matter of preference of what to use, but it's a preference that leads to ugly code all over the place and a lot of "programmers" raised on PHP who think they rock for being able to make counters but can't really do anything else. As a developer, I do happen to care about what goes on under the hood; I care about code reuse and modularity and clean code and such, because it makes the world a better place~~

Quote:IRC Bot? Sure, got that done in PHP. Web Operating System? Oh yeah, no problem. Forums? Blogs? CMS's? Sure! You got a need for a web application? PHP can be used.

What about these and these and these and these and these? What do they have to do with Web development? Oh but right, you can choose to just not compile them in, if you happen to be the administrator of the machine you're on and want to remove them from everyone else who may dream up a reason to use them. Modularity and dynamic loading is for nerds!

Also, stop talking about functionality. I'm talking about the design of the language. We could all write our Web applications in C or even assembler, but for some strange reason we don't. PHP has inconsistent syntax, far too many functions that do almost the same thing, weird scoping rules, and far too much old junk lurking around. It almost seems deliberately designed to encourage obfuscation and require having a manual open at all times.

Quote:But don't try to come to be with stupid "issues" with PHP that I don't care about it, and expect me to switch. Cause I'm not.

I'm not asking you to switch. I am making you aware of how shitty it is, though how are they stupid issues? Any sane programmer who has a grasp on what real programming languages are already know of these defectives in PHP, and they have for years already.

http://maurus.net/resources/programming-languages/php/
http://www.bitstorm.org/edwin/en/php/
http://shiflett.org/blog/2006/aug/six-reasons-php-sucks
http://spyced.blogspot.com/2005/06/why-php-sucks.html
http://www.tnx.nl/php.html

Everybody has already referenced to issues as I already have.

Quote:PHP, FTW. (SHUT UP, Faltzer (Definitely not Silverwing (Definitely not Faltzer))!)

I have this thing about people using crappy tools, as you may have noticed :|

(08-11-2008 04:24 AM)Faltzer Wrote:  I have this thing about people using crappy tools, as you may have noticed :|

I do too. I hate Vista. So I will get on people's case for using Vista. Ask my computer teacher. He would know. And I've already converted a friend from Vista to OS X.

What would you suggest as a replacement for PHP? Python, Ruby, or Perl?

Plus, I can't just stop using PHP. I've already written a good chunk of my site in PHP, and it's integrated with MyBB. Taking the time to rewrite the site, then find new forum software, would just be a waste of time.

As I have said before, and I will say it again: I. ♥. PHP. Done.

(08-11-2008 06:16 AM)PsychicAltaria Wrote:  What would you suggest as a replacement for PHP? Python, Ruby, or Perl?

Any of those three would do, but Python is very good.

Quote:Plus, I can't just stop using PHP. I've already written a good chunk of my site in PHP, and it's integrated with MyBB. Taking the time to rewrite the site, then find new forum software, would just be a waste of time.

It is worth it.

But that whole site could be achieved with PHP. They're even using vBulletin which is coded in PHP.

Oh, and what's your site coded in, out of curiosity?